| Dwight
Nelson: |
Millions of people around
the world have this book. In fact, according to one recent survey,
9 out of 10 Americans own it but fewer than half have ever read
it. Where did the Bible come from? Is it from God? Can it be
trusted? I'm Dwight Nelson. Let's look at the evidence. |
| Dwight
Nelson: |
I think for most of
us, the Bible is hard to understand. It's confusing. It seems
contradictory at times. To some people, it's even boring. In
other words, the Bible perfectly fits Mark Twain's definition
of a classic: "A book which people praise and don't read."
Today we hope to change that. We start with writer-historian,
Dr. Kenneth Davis. |
| Kenneth
Davis: |
We use this book, the
Bible, all the time when we're debating politics, when we're
debating social issues. The whole range of them. But we never
really stop and wonder who wrote this thing? What did these
things mean 4,000 years ago when they wrote it? What language
did they write it in? |
| Doug Clark: |
It's always the case
that we move from a different language, culture, and time. So,
we have to be sensitive to TLC, to time, language, and culture
when we go back to the Biblical world. And then I think we're
in a better position to make the application. |
| Wayne Teasdale: |
The writers of the Bible
were persons like us. Some were educated, some weren't. They
had their own agendas, hidden and conscious and otherwise. And
they functioned within a certain economic, geographic, political,
and linguistic historical context. |
| Joann Davidson: |
So, therefore, I'm going
to try to put each writer in it's historical context. Put him
or her in the time they were living and you have to do that
first to find out what they were saying first and then you put
the different writers together and the different time frames
that they come and say this is the picture God wants me to have.
|
| Doug Clark: |
When we read the Bible,
we are always in the business of interpreting, whether we admit
it or not. We are always in the business of interpreting. I
did hear someone say one time that children would behave better
if we would return to the Bible and do exactly what it says
and if a son curses his parents, he should be stoned. And the
person
this is on a tap,e and the person said if we were
to follow that today we would have a lot less juvenile delinquency.
We may have a lot less juveniles if we did that today. What
I would rather look for - and here's where archeology helps:
If I could get at what those words meant to the people who first
heard them, I think I am in a better position to know what they
mean to me. |
| Dan Matthews: |
If you were to invite
5 people to come together and bring their Bibles, likely as
not, they'd bring 5 different books. There are Jewish Bibles
and Roman Catholic Bibles and Protestant Bibles. And if that
weren't enough, there are about 3,500 English versions of the
Bible. Of course the best known of all of those is the 1611
King James Version. |
| Kenneth
Davis: |
Most English speaking
people think that the Bible is the King James version. It's
a 300-year old piece of literature that was often poorly translated.
We know that they made mistakes in 1611. The English is archaic.
God didn't say "thee" and "thou." Nor did
Jesus. They spoke certainly
Jesus spoke in Aramaic, a language
that is related to Hebrew. The Old Testament or Hebrew Bible
was written mostly in an ancient form of Hebrew. It's a very
difficult language. There are no vowels in the written form
of it. It's only consonants. So there was even a guessing game
in some respects. |
| Joann Davidson: |
I admit that there's
still some hard parts to understand, but the more we
we
study the original languages, the more the different disciplines
that feed into to Bible study, like the historians and archeology
and scientists and they
they find out more and we fit it
together. All the time believing this is God's perspective on
history, on humanity, on Himself. And then
then you begin
to find the
what some call the full-orbed message of truth.
Finding the whole picture. |
| Dan Matthews: |
Finding the whole picture
can be difficult when you read some of the ancient laws. For
instance, what do laws regarding animal sacrifice and sexual
practice and other aspects of tribal life in Biblical times
have to do with the 21st century? What about the requirement
of an annual goat banishment to cleanse from sin? Can we really
be expected to take the Bible seriously? |
| Doug Clark: |
I take the Bible seriously.
But I don't always take it literally with some of these laws.
I want to understand what they meant to the people who first
heard them and what God intended for those laws to do. Another
example would be an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
That meant something in a society with tribal groups. We know
this archeologically about tribal groups. And the law was serious.
If somebody took a tooth out of your tribal group, you needed
to take a tooth out of their group. It was the law to do it,
but no more than a tooth. Otherwise you get this Hatfields and
McCoys kind of development. So, in a tribal group that meant
something. But by the time we get to the New Testament, Jesus
talks about, "You have heard an eye for an eye and a tooth
for a tooth, but I tell you if someone strikes you on one cheek,
turn the other cheek." So society had changed. A law that
was meant to preserve tribal groups is no longer useful. |
| Kenneth
Davis: |
For me that
asking
all these questions, pressing all these historical issues, ultimately
brought me back to a realization that there are things clearly
that I don't understand. But that's what God told Job, that:
"You are too small and puny to understand all this. You
weren't even around when I created this whole thing." And
in a way that's not a satisfying answer, but ultimately I think
that's sometimes what we're left with - and that's what faith
really is.
|
| Joann Davidson: |
I found myself addicted
to this book, now. I just want to find out more. I just hunger
to find out the picture of God that He wants me to have. |
| Dwight
Nelson: |
As you can see, the
Bible is a controversial book. Marriages have been united by
it. Countries have been divided by it. But is it true? Is it
historically accurate? What does recent archeological evidence
tell us? We'll find out when we come back. |
| Dwight
Nelson |
The Madaba Plains project
is an archeological site covering a vast area in central Jordan.
Three locations within that site have received particular attention.
Tel Hisban, Tel Jalu, and Tell el-`Umeiri. For the last 30 years,
archeologists Doug Clark and Larry Geraty have led expeditions
to this site. |
| Doug Clark |
It began in the late
60's with a man, Dr. Sigfried Horn, who actually was a mentor
for a number of us who continue to work there. And it began
at a site called Hesbon, shows up in a number of places in the
Old Testament. Then, when excavations were completed there after
5 seasons, we moved to a couple of other places. But still in
the plains, the Madaba Plains. They are just south of the capital
city of Amman, Jordan.
|
| Larry Geraty: |
At Heshbon, the site
we began with, we found a huge reservoir up near the top of
the mound that was built in the 10th century BC. And it almost
certainly is the pools of Heshbon mentioned in the Song of Solomon
in the Bible where he's describing his beloved and he says:
"Your eyes are like the pools at Hesbon by the gate of
Bariheim." And so if these pools are full of water sparkling
in the sunlight, you can see how they would be an apt simile
for you know, somebody's eyes. |
| Kenneth
Davis: |
In the past 30 years,
actually 50 years, but more recently, there have been extraordinary
finds in the holy land in particular, of sites, buildings, temples,
living places, that have a great deal to do with the events
in the Bible. |
| Dan Matthews: |
But not all the archeological
evidence we have supports a Biblical story. For example, to
date noone has found solid evidence that the wall surrounding
the city of Jericho came down just as the Bible describes. And
to date, there's a problem with the story that the children
of Israel conquered another city shortly after the exodus from
Egypt. That city was Heshbon. |
| Doug Clark: |
Heshbon really doesn't
date back to when we would date the exodus. There are two dates
for the exodus. Some people would suggest the 15th century BC,
the 1400's. Others would say the 1200's. Either way you go with
that, the town of Heshbon wasn't quite there yet. And so, maybe
it was somewhere else. And there was a movement of peoples that
ended up planting it where we now find what we find. What I
think we have to do is
is recognize that the Biblical stories
somehow begin with a historical event. Something happened. These
things don't just come out of nowhere. |
| Kenneth
Davis: |
In the last 50 years,
there have been all kinds of digs that have brought to light
things that support the historicity of the Bible. The Dead Sea
scrolls being one of the most famous. These were found just
after World War II and as a result of those finds, we now have
manuscripts for the Old Testament, the Hebrew Bible, that go
back before the time of Jesus even. So, every year, there are
finds that are made that are important establishing the Bible
as a very historically and accurate book. |
| Doug Clark: |
Very often we have a
sense, I think, a lot of people grow up with the idea that the
Bible happened in Never Never Land. That it didn't really happen.
It's like the Greek myths or the legends of King Arthur. But
if you go back and look at history, you find a lot of clear
connections and clear parallels between events in the Bible
and recorded history. |
| Dan Matthews: |
One thing history makes
clear is that life in Bible times was nothing like life in Never
Never land. People struggled against the elements. Lice, wild
animals, drought, starvation. Life was hard. And death was an
ever-present reality. |
| Doug Clark: |
If your children survived
until their teen years, you were fortunate. Life expectancy?
35. That's doing well. We don't think in those terms. And when
we look back at the Biblical passages, and we say, you know,
those people complained a lot, you know. "Moses, why are
you taking us out here? You know, we're out of water. We need
some food." The truth of the matter is, they were out of
food. They were out of water. They were most of the time. It
was hard to live. These people died young. They worked hard.
They had as many children as they could. That was their labor
force. This was a subsistence economy in which I mean that people
grew what they could eat. There was not a lot of trading back
and forth. So when you know those kinds of things, I think we
end up having a bit more sympathy for some of these people in
Bible times. And I think we can understand and appreciate the
Biblical passages better. |
| Kenneth
Davis: |
Of all the questions
that I have asked and that people have asked me over the years
that I've been working and thinking about this book, nobody
has really asked me what the future of the Bible is. But I think
it's survived 4,000 years, 2,000 years in the case of the New
Testament. So it's future is probably secure. |
| Dwight
Nelson: |
When we come back, the
Religion editor of U.S. News and World Report explores some
of the thorniest aspects of current debates about the Bible.
What he says might surprise you. |
| Music |
|
| Dwight
Nelson: |
I'm talking to journalist,
Jeffery Sheler, Religion Editor of U.S. News and World Report
and author of this fascinating book: Is the Bible True? In fact,
even more fascinating, the sub-title: "How Modern Debates
and Discoveries Affirm the Essence of Scriptures." Welcome
Jeffrey. |
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
Thank you. |
| Dwight
Nelson: |
Glad to have you on
The Evidence. |
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
Thank you Dwight. |
| Dwight
Nelson: |
I want to move right
to this title: Is the Bible True? Is this even the question
to ask if the Bible is a book of faith and not a book of history?
|
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
You know, if the
if
the Bible's history
|
| Dwight
Nelson: |
Uh huh. |
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
could be proven
to be false, then that would cast a very major shadow over the
Bible's theological claims. No, you can't prove the theological
claims as a historian. But you can substantiate the history.
Therefore, the Bible creates a historical context that is firm
and sound that underlies the theological claims. |
| Dwight
Nelson: |
So what are some of
the ways then that you or somebody sets out to prove the veracity
of Biblical history? |
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
Well, you do what a
good journalist would do. Or a good historian. You ask questions.
You examine the sources. Who are the sources? How authoritative
are they? How reliable are they? You look for physical evidence.
You look for documentary evidence. |
| Dwight
Nelson: |
Are there pieces
|
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
Oh, there's a tremendous
amount of evidence of that nature. There's a tremendous amount.
Archeologists during this last century have uncovered a tremendous
a
wealth of information, inscriptions, artifacts, ruins, architectural
ruins, that really do create a good sound picture. |
| Dwight
Nelson: |
Do you mean now when
you say they have found actual evidence. Are you talking about
parallel events to Biblical history or actual verification of
events recorded in Scripture? |
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
Well both really. We
have evidence that certainly under-girds the context, the historical
context, of many of the stories of the Bible. Setting those
stories then in a real recoverable, provable historical context.
But we also, in some cases, have dramatic corroboration of the
actual episodes. |
| Dwight
Nelson: |
What's dramatic? |
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
Well one, for example,
if you look at the ancient Assyrian inscriptions from the king
of Assyria's King Sennacherib. He wrote about his military exploits,
his invasion of Judah, talks about invading Judah, laying siege
to Jerusalem, laying siege to Lachish, and when you read about
this in the annals of Sennacherib, and then you pick up the
book of 2 Kings in the Hebrew Bible, the Old Testament, it is
|
| Dwight
Nelson: |
Same description. |
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
Parallel
it's a
parallel description. I mean not word for word, but I mean,
that clearly they are talking about
|
| Dwight
Nelson: |
Sure. |
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
the same thing.
And they go together. Now that to me is dramatic corroboration
of Biblical history. |
| Dwight
Nelson: |
Ok. |
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
Now there is also indirect
corroboration that is also dramatic. |
| Dwight
Nelson: |
Such as
|
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
About 7 years ago in
upper Galilee, some archeologists discovered a stone that they
turn it over and it had inscription on it. This inscription
was found in a wall. They determined that this inscription was
written by Syrians, not Assyrians, but Syrians
|
| Dwight
Nelson: |
Ok. |
|
Jeffery Sheler: |
During the time of the
divided kingdom, kingdom of Judah, kingdom of Israel. In this
inscription it mentions two people, two leaders who were defeated
by the Syrians. They are the King of Israel
|
| Dwight
Nelson: |
Yeah. |
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
And the House of David.
Now that is the
that mention of David was a historical
bombshell because that was the first time that the name of David
had been discovered outside of the text of the Bible itself.
Before that
|
| Dwight
Nelson: |
Prior that no
|
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
No mention. |
| Dwight
Nelson: |
verification that
David in fact was a historical figure? |
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
And skeptics like to
jump on that fact to make the argument that David was a legend.
That he was made up by priests during the exile to sort of create
a noble history for this poor exiled nation. Give them something
patriotic around which to rally. Now they could no longer make
that argument because here was an inscription written inscribed
within a 100 years of the time of David, not by Hebrew scribes
or priests but by an enemy of Israel celebrating their victory
over Israel and the house of David. That was dramatic corroboration,
certainly not of all the stories do David, but certainly that
now we know that David was a true historical figure. |
| Dwight
Nelson: |
And then the discovery,
what 40-50 years ago? Dead Sea scrolls. That actually being,
according to your book, a fairly seminal discovery in terms
of verifying the authenticity. Why? |
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
Well the Dead Sea Scrolls
which, of course, were the most dramatic and important archeological
discovery of the 20th century, really do two things in regards
to the Bible. The Scrolls contained within those 800 or so documents
almost half of them, nearly half of them, were Biblical texts.
|
| Dwight
Nelson: |
Straight out of the
corpus? |
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
They were scrolls that
made up the Hebrew Bible. Every book of the Hebrew Bible except
the Book of Esther was found within the Dead Sea scrolls. |
| Dwight
Nelson: |
Is that right? |
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
And in many cases there
were numerous copies of each book. When scholars were able to
examine those Biblical texts they found many things but the
most dramatic and important thing that they found was how well-preserved
the Hebrew Bible has traveled these last 2,000 years. In other
words, while some scholars had made the case that the Bible
probably was altered, particularly in the first Christian centuries,
now we suddenly had texts that went back to the turn of era,
Biblical texts. And when we looked at those texts we see that
there were virtually no major changes from that day to this
day in the text of the Hebrew Bible. That was an important corroboration
of the preservation, of the integrity, of the Hebrew Bible.
|
| Dwight
Nelson: |
So, I walk into a bookstore.
You've convinced me, Jeffrey. I need to check this book out.
And I'm reading the book. It is possible that if there is a
God, I could interface? I could connect somehow through the
Book? |
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
Well that has been the
experience of millions of people for 2,000 years. That is what
has made the Bible what it is. The fact that it continues to
be a best seller. It is not because of the pictures. It's not
because of the snazzy story line. It's because of how it speaks
to people, how it resonates to them personally and how it reveals
for them the existence of the God of Israel who is active in
history, redeeming history, and is communicating. That is what
believers have believed the Bible to be. |
| Dwight
Nelson: |
Jeffrey Sheeler, fascinating
book: Is the Bible True? Delighted to have you on The Evidence.
Thank you for coming. |
| Jeffery
Sheler: |
Thank you. |
| Dwight
Nelson: |
So what do you think?
What do you think about the Bible? Tell us. Visit our website.
You can find us at www.theevidence.org. I'll be back in just
a moment with what I think, right after this. |
| Music |
|
| Dwight
Nelson: |
Moses leading the children
of Israel out of Egypt, Daniel and the fall of Babylon, Jesus
in the temple in Jerusalem. These are Bible stories that many
of us have learned in childhood. And let's face it, these stories
often seem less and less credible as we get older. They seem
removed from the real world. But remarkably enough, archeologists
unearthing clay jars and Assyrian inscriptions and temple pillars
have validated those very same stories. They have shown us how
Biblical records fit in time and place. They have dug up artifacts
that confirm details in those same narratives. In other words,
archeology has helped to turn what many critics assume were
mere legends, into history. I think that's something unique
about the Bible. Some scholars in fact have concluded that no
other document intertwines stories of God's intervention, the
facts of history, so well. And I find that a wonderfully hopeful
phenomenon. Because it suggests to me that God can indeed can
be active in my history, in my life. It suggests that God's
plans can intertwine with my challenges and problems and longings.
After all, isn't that the bottom line? Don't we all hope there's
a word, a message, a voice that can guide us now, and here?
What archeology has helped to show us is that the Bible is a
guide with the greatest of credentials. That's what I think.
I'm Dwight Nelson. Join us next time for more of The Evidence.
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